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Translation help please...?

shellbell
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I just found the marriage of Marie Louise Marchand to Natalis Becourt in 1865. Again thankyou for the information. It is definitely the Marie louise Marchand born to Virginie in 1837, given the information I can understand. Which again I apologise but my lack of French does limit me here. I can see reference to their child Marie Lucine Caroline Marchand born in 1862, but never would have picked this up without your help!
So I am not sure now that this is the right Marie Louise Marchand that I am looking for. As I said my ancestor was Louis Malhomme and he would have been 10 in 1865. Whilst its quite possible that his father, who was so much older than his mother, had died & she'd met someone new, it is unlikely that Louis was not with his mother at the age of just 10. I will try to find a census in Abbeville, Amiens or Riencourt, after 1856 with Marchand & Becourt on & see if Louis Malhomme is there too. If not, I think I may have been following the wrong line.

npoussineau
female
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If you know were your Marie Louise lives in 1872 or 1876, you should look at the census. Normally you will find place of birth. This is not 100% accurate, but can help.
If she lives in a big city, usually the census is sorted by street and the street name is written on the left part of the page.
At that time, a child does not always live with her mother if she is married again and the husband does not want him. I found some with their grand-parents, specially if the parents live in a city and grand-parents in a village.

shellbell
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Am I right in thinking there are no censuses between 1856 & 1872?
Only by 1872 Louis malhomme would be 17, so likely not with any relatives at all. He married English wife in UK in march 1877. Though she had been living in le havre with her 1st husband in June 1876, so he could have met her in France. And his father would've been 60 in 1872, so he was quite possibly dead. What I mean is, in order to know a Marie Louise Marchand is the right one, I need to find her with either her son or his father, as Marchand is a much more common name. So I really need a census before 1872.

For 1857 - 1889 i can only find censuses as follows
Abbeyville -1872 etrangers - which I assume is foreigners. I can't find any others

Riencourt - 1872 and 1872 etrangers

Amiens - 1872 etrangers and Dreuil-les-Amiens 1872

I'm not sure what dreuil-les-amiens is but it's only 10 pages so suspect is isn't a full amiens census. And I can't find one for Abbeyville at all. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Anyway I'll continue to check what I can find. And Thank you again for all you've done.

npoussineau
female
Posts: 51
There have been census every 5 years at that time in France : 1856, 1861, 1866, 1872 (postponed 1 year because of the war).
But they are not on the website: probably destoyed.

Dreuil-lès-Amiens is a small city near Amiens. ("lès-Amiens" means near Amiens)

I think what you found in 1851 census is very interesting and need further investigation. For example, Louis Marchand 6 years old is born 1844 in Riencourt, son of Emelie Marchand. Both childs (Louis and Marie-Louise Marchand) live with 2 adults : Célestine Boucher 54 years old and Antoine Dubois 66. Why ? At Célestine Boucher death (10/10/1855 Riencourt), Antoine Boucher is called "domestique", and she is daughter of Nicolas Boucher & Florence Dubois. Remember that Marie-Louise was born in Nicolas Boucher house ? So Marie-Louise has a close link with Boucher family (which one, I don't know) but no close family. I will not be surprised that she left the village to work in the nearest big city: Amiens.

I also notice that Joséphine Virginie Marchand was married 15/9/1839 at Riencourt witth Stanislas Ysambourg (who died 20/2/1845 Riencourt), and she died 25/3/1885 Riencourt.

I think the most useful thing for you now will be to find death certificates for your Marie-Louise Marchand and Jean Pierre Malhomme. I had a look in Amiens, but didn't find between 1855 and 1902. Do you have any clue were they could have lived after 1855 (for example mentions in their son wedding) ?

shellbell
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Your input is helping so much. I can't thank you enough.
I have the birth record for Louis Malhomme. He was born in Amiens in 1855. I also have a record of his death which was registered in Amiens as well as in Cardiff ,UK, where he actually died. I believe 2 Frenchmen who knew him were passing through & took the news back to his hometown of Amiens. Which makes me think he grew up there. I know it's the right one, as not only does the death record mention his English wife but the dates match those I have in a french family bible.
Louis father is Jean Pierre Mederic Malhomme born in Cormontreuil in 1812. I've traced all his families birth & death records but cannot find the death record for him. I found him as Frederic with Marie Louise Marchand & Louis Malhomme on the 1856 census. But haven't found any marriages or other information. I know he is the father as I have several DNA matches with descendants of his sister, Marie Gabrielle Felicite Malhomme.
Louis married twice. He married Ellen Neal in 1877 in Cardiff. Her 1st husband Auguste Louis Aline, had died in June 1876 in Le Havre. When she died he married her eldest daughter Ellen Augustine Aline. By the time he married her she'd already had his son Louis Anzelo Malhomme, my great grandfather. One of his marriage certificates refers to his father as Louis Malhomme, the other as Louis Mederic Malhomme. Both names are incorrect suggesting his dad was not around when he was growing up. But neither refer to his father as deceased.
I'll message you with copies of the documents I have, if you're still happy to help. Again I can't thank you enough for what you've done up to now.

shellbell
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1A1DB3E0-3971-4F73-95E4-E989168EBB29.jpeg
Louis Malhomme birth

shellbell
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9D90A87D-1D13-44A4-BE7B-121F8C2C39D2.jpeg
Louis Malhomme death
70FE9155-0973-4F94-8B99-1C81A8E9E99F.jpeg
Louis Malhomme marriage
C3FDBEA1-2CBB-426D-886C-9182C709C29F.jpeg
Louis Malhomme marriage

shellbell
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ABBF5FC6-B165-4B3E-A58B-C495D6D70EA7.jpeg
Jean Pierre Mederic Malhomme birth

shellbell
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Unfortunately British records are nothing like as detailed as French records. A marriage certificate only give the bride and grooms name, current address (often only 1 to save on cost) age and fathers name and occupation. It doesn’t mention the mother, the parents ages, or birth places, as you can see from the copies above. They really aren’t that helpful when trying to trace back a generation.

shellbell
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I’m just looking at the birth Record for Louis Marchand b. 1844 Riencourt. Again my lack of French is letting me down, but is Stanislas Ysambourg mentioned on this?? It looks like it to me, but I’m not sure of the relationship. But if I’m right that does connect Josephine Virginie Marchand, who married Stanislas Ysambourg to Marie Louise Marchand 14 living with Louis Marchand 6 in 1851 census.
D4E90A7D-F816-4422-8637-4F6F4F92BD97.jpeg
Louis Marchand birth 1844 Riencourt

npoussineau
female
Posts: 51
No problem to help you. I know how difficult it is to make research in a foreign country (Germany, Luxemburg and Poland for me).

I notice that Louis is born 9/9/1855 and not 10/9/1855. The certificat says "born the day before" ("né la veille").

Stanilas Ysambourg, 67 years old, is the one who declares the birth. No relationship is mentioned. But I would guess that is bother-in-law of the mother Emelie. I think that his wife Joséphine Virginie is the sister of Emelie (unmarried). If this is true, the boy Louis will be cousin of Marie-Louise. If I guess right, you should find the birth of the two sisters in Riencourt, with the "tables décennales".

I also had a look at your tree and see that you didn't have the parents of Jean François Malhomme who is married 1754. You maybe didn't notice that he is said "widow of Anne Herbert". You will find his first marriage 10/7/1752 in Chaourse (same book p 143). I let you discover the parents.

shellbell
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Oh how lovely you are! Thank you.

shellbell
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I thought I’d update you as I’ve found quite a lot of further information thanks to your help. Josephine Virginie Marchand & Heleine Emely Marchand we’re indeed sisters. So Marie Louise Marchand age 14 & Louis Marchand age 6 on the 1851 census we’re cousins.
I’ve found Virginie & Emely parents Charles Firmin Marchand & Marie Louise Godin. I have their birth, marriage and death records. Charles died in 1812 in the house of Nicolas Boucher. Marie Godin married Nicolas Boucher in 1822. She died just a few months later in Jan 1823. So I assume it was in her step fathers house that Virginie gave birth to Marie Louise Marchand. He was born in 1765 so he’d have been 86 on the 1851 census, whereas the one we found on the census was 71. But it was probably the same person?
Charles Marchand & Marie Louise Godin parents were also listed on their marriage certificate. So I have their names to research, though I must admit I’m not sure what Charles mothers name is other than Helen!

I still have nothing concrete to tie Josephine Virginie Marchand as the mother of the Marie Louise Marchand I’m looking for, as I can’t find any census with my Marie Louise and her son Louis other than the 1856 one which doesn’t give a birthplace. But I can only assume we’ve found the correct one, as I cannot find anyone else that fits so well.

Then of course you helped me go back a generation with Jean Francois Malhomme, by finding his 1st marriage for me, which gave his parents names.

So once again than you. You’ve been a huge help. If you have any connections in the UK that I can help with, don’t hesitate to ask. Unfortunately my German is worse than my French so I can’t help you there. I only wish I could.

shellbell
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Just realised Nicolas Boucher 71 is on 1836 census, so that would be right and would definitely be the Nicolas Boucher who married Virginie mum.

npoussineau
female
Posts: 51
Congratulations, you have found the link between Marchand and Boucher families.

The link between your Marie Louise Marchand and Virginie would be confirm by Marie Louise's death certificate. But it is difficult to find if you don't know where they have been living. I don't know if Louis Marchand, the cousin, had married. If yes, maybe by chance Jean Pierre Mederic Malhomme will be witness of the wedding.

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